By looking at the schematic, and comparing it to my previous post of voltage regulators, it is almost identical, with the design, and only component values are different. C1, R1, Q1, D1, and R3 compromising the sensing and regulating circuit, whereas D2,D3, Q2 and Q3 are the shunting components of the stator winding.
D4 to D7 are your rectifiers that converts the AC coming from the stator to DC for charging your battery. With the values as shown, the output of this regulator is 14.4 at 5000rpm. You can modify this circuit for your intended application, to output 15 volts rather than 14.4 for quick charging of your battery when there are too much load on your system, by altering D1, to 13 volts rather than 12.6 volts..
This system is Stator dependent...meaning, this can't output more power on what your stator can give, all charging system power rely on your stator max output...
Part list
R1= 3.3k ohms
R2= 1 k ohms
R3= 1.5k ohms
R4= 100 ohms
Q1= 2n5401
C1= 10uf / 25volts
D1= 12.6 volts zener / 1 watt
D2 /D3= 1n4007
SCR1 /SCR2= bt151-500 or bt151-600
D4-D7= bridge rated 100v 10A
can you please tell me exact power ratig for D4 D7 diodes? i have used IN5408 for bridge and it was getting hot in few seconds. does it is having any circuit prob or diode incompatible? single phase stator for RD350 yamaha. ( rahil.smart@gmail.com )
ReplyDeletedoes altering D1, to 13 volts rather than 12.6 volts increase the regulated voltage to the lamp also and makes the lamp brigther...?? (ajxavr52@gmail.com)
ReplyDelete@anonymous
ReplyDeleteif you will analyze the circuit..there are two AC input coming in from your alternator..make sure the other winding is not earth grounded....the circuit uses full wave bridge rectifier...
@AJXAVR
possible...if you keep on browsing here at this blogsite and keep on analyzing and comparing it with those three phases regulator which in turn can also be used on single phases by omitting the other two SCR limiting circuit...
All circuit here were breadboarded and find it working...
does altering D1, to 13 volts rather than 12.6 volts increase the regulated voltage to the lamp also and makes the lamp brigther...?? (ajxavr52@gmail.com)
ReplyDelete@ajxavr, the circuit above do not have a lighting coil input to regulate the lamp voltage if your headlight will be stator driven, the circuit is for charging your battery in a full wave system, meaning the stator winding is not earth grounded.
ReplyDeleteyour headlight must be connected to your battery instead.
D1 is your threshold..it must remain with the value posted...
there is another circuit that is nearly identical with add-on component and by selecting the right value will get you to what you really wanted your regulator will output.
here is the link on this site
http://mastercircuits.blogspot.com/2010/05/motorcycle-voltage-regulator.html
use those formulas to get going.
I build this single phase shunt regulator and i used different value resistors to increase the zener idle current to 15mA and the SCR trigger current to 40mA.
ReplyDeleteI just do not fully understand the principle of shorting a charge coil. The stator becomes very hot and i wonder whether the full current still runs through the statot when it is shorted by the SCR. Will this current be the same current as when charging a battery with a system voltage below the charge treshold so that the SCR's are open.
The circuit above is for a full wave windings. No part of the winding is connected to chassis ground.
Deletethat's not a high-end regulator because it consume always the potential of the alternator.
DeleteWith other words, it reduce the motor power, if the mean is only charge the accumulator..
that is true, i cannot deny that, because this is the simplest regulator found on every small motorcycle electrical system, Shunt regulator robs the power of any accumulator. From the term itself, SHUNT, every extra juice of it must be wasted to make sure the system function properly. High end motorcycle regulators uses FET instead of SCR and series type instead of shunt type.
DeleteHow value for Q2=? and Q3=?
ReplyDeleteQ2 and Q3 are BT151-600 or BT151-500..
Deletethanks to you ... the circuit works well on single phase electrical system fullwave generator in my motorcycle, I use the accumulator 12 volt 20 ampere per hour and single phase ac generator, accumulator always maintained his power even though I use the electric starter and HID lamps.
ReplyDeleteDo you have a circuit schematic for a shunt type, 12 VAC regulator, for main lights only, no battery, no other load; The stator is just one coil with one end directly earthed to ground and the other end to light bulb, thats all.
ReplyDeletemariner if u will just use it for powering headlights only, and no other load...use the single phase half wave regulator posted within this site, kindly search it and you'll land to where you want to be. Just use one SCR on those circuit and parallel it to your bulb.
ReplyDeletehi to all.
ReplyDeleteWhat would be the size of that zener on a stationary engine that runs at max 3600 RPM? Do i use the same as noted? Sorry im not an electronic guru just making electronics for fun.
Thanks
Athina78k---zener with a 500mw rated wattage will do just fine..it does not even heat up during operation..
ReplyDeletethank you .
ReplyDeleteHi again .
ReplyDeleteThis reg. doesn't need a + voltage from Key switch? or it is connected direct to the Bat.
Im about to make it and use it on a Honda 6.5 Hp stationary engine with clutch and reduction 2:1 . It is used on a small wooden boat in Greece.
I forgot to mention that originally the coil was half wave and i converted it to full wave by ungrounding the other end of the coil,then connect that other end to a wire. The original system was using only a diode to rectify the half wave and it was for just keeping the bat alive since the output regulated voltage was about 12V.
ReplyDeleteAt half Rpm i was hardly getting 18v ac on the coil ( half wave )
Now im getting at the same RPM about 30v AC. Hope my modification will work since i need that bat alive for running my starter and bridge pump.
Athina78k, 30v is good if u get almost double of that in a half wave system..now connect the battery to the regulator output..by the way, you can just simply connect the black wire (after ignition key if you do not have it) to the positive terminal of your battery and it will sense the battery voltage . If it sense a low battery then it will open up the SCR gate so current will then flow towards the battery and when it is in full charge state, SCR will then clamp the winding lowering down the current. Good Luck
ReplyDeleteThank you .
ReplyDeleteAnd i have a last question. If i just connect it directly to the bat, will it consume it while not running the boat?
Athina78k, we all know that any motorcycle voltage regulator, they are always ONLINE meaning, even if they are in a standby mode, they are still connected to the battery because of the voltage monitoring circuit of the regulator, that is why in a full wave type, one wire is disconnected when ignition is off, and when the ignition key is turned ON. that is the only time the circuit comes to life.
ReplyDeleteIt will consume current when the system is OFF, so i suggest put a toggle switch between the battery and the positive terminal of the regulator to be sure.
Hi again .. i managed to make the pbc today ,i placed all components on it( well my man did it by the way) and we went testing . Voltage on the bat was 10.7v. After attaching the rectifier i was getting around 12v constantly over 1300 rpm. so the difference was 1.3 volts so i guess it was charging????an other guessing is, if bat was at 12V i would have get 13.3v?? ( 12v bat plus 1.3v over voltage from rectifier)
ReplyDeleteHere i must say that i couldn't find a 12.6 or 13v zener and replaced that with a 12v one and as a bridge recifier i used a 10A 200v (GBJ10D) rated one..As a zener diode i can get also a 18 or maybe 15v, im living in a "god forgotten place" so it very difficult to find stuff here.
Do you think im away out ? is there anything i can do to rise that output voltage?
Thanks again and im so so sorry for bombing this blog with messages but you are everything i have for the moment.
Cheers.
Athina78k, No you are not that way out. When you use any zener value on the circuit, the output voltage threshold will vary. It is better to test it with a healthy battery so that when you try to change the value of the ZENER diode, you will know what output voltage the system will have. The zener diode plays an important role on the output because it is a part of the monitoring circuit of the regulator. Just do not go beyond the 15v zener rating or you will have a bloated battery soon, (from what i remembered, the regulator outputs near 18volts when i use the 15v zener) so I guess 12-13.5 volts zener is safe.
ReplyDeleteNathaniel .. we cant get more than 12.27v dc at 1800 rpm..(max rpm of that engine is 3600) even if we give more throttle at the engine the voltage remain at 12.3. I have double checked my pbc and elements they are just fine.. even i was able to get a 13v zener. Do you think that maybe the capacitor isnt the proper value for my project? or do you think it matters that i used a bridge that is rated at 200v? maybe defective bat? elements of the circuit not getting hot at all...
ReplyDeletethanks.
Athina78k, hello again. Here is another schematic variation of the said full wave regulator..try to swap components with this schematic,
ReplyDeletehttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vmYlXBxXYNc/UBdeR8apb_I/AAAAAAAAA3w/CmXoh9ci6ek/s1600/Full+Wave+Regulator+schematic+2.jpg
I see a problem in this circuit. Scr type Bt151 has anode connected to the mounting base. So when both Scr's are mounted on the same heatsink, stator winding will be short circuited via heatsink...
ReplyDeleteBUDULIS, That is why there is what we called MICA insulator, to isolate both the tab of the SCR on any heatsink. Have you open one to see for yourself?
ReplyDeletegud day sir im leo, can you make a half wave version of this circuit pls, i really wanna try this on my motorcycle, thanks
ReplyDeleteSomehow your design is less effective than original half wave regulator in honda CBF125.
ReplyDeletewith original regulator i'm getting battery voltage =12.8V @5000rpm.
with circuit above(my own and ebay purchased) only 11.5V @ same rpm and load.
Olá amigo.
ReplyDeleteEstou tentando fazer este projeto.
Você também tem o esquema p reguladores trifásico?
Good eve sir,pwedi ba ang bridge na 1000v 35a ipalit ko sa mb254?
ReplyDeleteGood eve sir,pwedi ba ang bridge na 1000v 35a ipalit ko sa mb254?
ReplyDeleteDino
ReplyDeleteUse at your own risk, the rectifier diode should handle the full capacity of your stator characteristics.
se puede conectar un transformador y usarlo como un cargador de baterÃas???
ReplyDeletehi guys
ReplyDeletei own a cd200 roadmaster 6v ! and i have followed this design to implement it to my 6 volt system by altering the zener diodes to 1n4734 ! but i only receive maxed 1.9 volts out of the regulator . can anyone help me on this ?
ADMIN:
ReplyDeleteBe noted that a half wave system needs battery to act as stabilizer when the engine is running. A motorcycle regulator is a BI-DIRECTIONAL system. It monitors the battery voltage by the sensing circuitry that controls the SCR clamping the windings to ground. Without the battery, the system is probably turning on the SCR thus no output on the stator. IT IS ALSO DETECTABLE on the engine DRAG. if the Regulator is on full SHUNT.
When I follow all the diagram stated above it will only gives 1.9 volts and Q1 will be shorted between collector to emitter. My scr is BT151_500R
ReplyDeleteDid u run the test with a healthy battery? The circuit works with a battery installed as a LOAD.
DeleteWhat if, you don't have a battery. Can we use this kind of regulator? Since the voltage across the DC bridge diode will drop to 1.9 volts. Thank you so much for answering my question.
DeleteYou can't because that particular circuit above uses a BATTERY to work properly. The voltage of the battery is being sensed by a particular voltage monitoring circuit comprises by Q1 to turn ON and OFF the gate of those clamping SCR's. When the voltage gets low according to the threshold set by specific value of C1, R1, Q1, D1, and R3. The sensing circuit will turn OFF the gate of the SCR thus current will flow to the battery for charging and when it sense that the battery is FULL..then it will turn on the gate of the SCR commencing the shunting process of the AC COIL to ground thus cutting all the will overcharge the battery. As simple as that, no MAGIC.
DeleteThank you so much for your very good explanation, I would like to ask if I buy a 5 wire voltage regulator in which my stator is designed for full wave (no ground)one of your post in which you open it and get schematic diagram would it be ok if I don't have a battery or should I need a battery? What happen to my stator?
ReplyDeleteAny MOTORCYCLE VOLTAGE REGULATOR needs a BATTERY to operate properly. It was designed to have something to sense a VOLTAGE to turn ON and OFF the shunting of any STATOR COIL, may it be half wave or FULL wave.
DeleteThat's in addition a great publish which i really valued learning. It's not every day that people maintain the opportunity to discover something 2cl2fl
ReplyDeleteHi bro
ReplyDeleteI need to modify this schematic to accomodate 3 phase
Can i still using the same value of components ?
And the scr will be BTW69
Also for zener diode my plan is i am gonna using 2 diodes (7.5v + 5.1v) OR (12v + 1N4148) to form 12.6 Volt
Please i need your suggestion